Zimmerman bail revoked, back in Jail

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 18:59

north ridger wrote:Yeah just yesterday I hallucinated about Holli Palmer. I must be coming down with something.

You claimed I owned a N8^2 Tactical.

Serious question.
Why would you do that?

by **north ridger** » 21 Jun 2012, 19:00

Horse wrote:
No, I'm just saying I see holes in story, just like the police do.

The police didn't find any holes dimwit, that's why they didn't charge him.

Your boy Serino may have invented holes, after he made up what sort of person Martin was.

Psst. Dan. Serino is "The police". He was the lead homicide detective on the case.

by **north ridger** » 21 Jun 2012, 19:02

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Yeah just yesterday I hallucinated about Holli Palmer. I must be coming down with something.

You claimed I owned a N8^2 Tactical.

Serious question.
Why would you do that?

I must be "still acting a mental case". :lol:

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 19:03

Your not normal, that's for sure.

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 19:04

north ridger wrote:
Horse wrote:
No, I'm just saying I see holes in story, just like the police do.

The police didn't find any holes dimwit, that's why they didn't charge him.

Your boy Serino may have invented holes, after he made up what sort of person Martin was.

Psst. Dan. Serino is "The police". He was the lead homicide detective on the case.

Psst...Yes, and he has the responsibility to tell the truth about Martin, which he did not!

He was making up facts...I see why you like him.

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 19:06

So, you letting your wife provide the income? You don't seem to have a job.

by **north ridger** » 21 Jun 2012, 19:39

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:
Horse wrote:
No, I'm just saying I see holes in story, just like the police do.

The police didn't find any holes dimwit, that's why they didn't charge him.

Your boy Serino may have invented holes, after he made up what sort of person Martin was.

Psst. Dan. Serino is "The police". He was the lead homicide detective on the case.

Psst...Yes, and he has the responsibility to tell the truth about Martin, which he did not!

He was making up facts...I see why you like him.

Oh, look, someone just found out who Chris Serino is! How cute. Yeah, I'm sure the lead homicide detective regularly makes up facts.

I never knew how much you hated law enforcement until now, Dan.

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 20:03

I'm sure the lead homicide detective regularly makes up facts.

This one did.

“The kid has no violent tendencies that we can find. What made him snap?” Serino asked.

“He's not on PCP. He's not on anything. He’s on Skittles.”

“He was 17 years old, an athlete, probably going into aeronautics. A kid with a future, a kid with folks that care...not a goon,” the detective said.

“He does not fit the profile of what occurred.”

No violent tendencies? Martin’s own brother sent him a tweet days before he got himself shot, responding to news that Trayvon had taken a swing at a school bus driver.

He was on suspension for drugs. He'd been caught with stolen women's jewelry in his back pack

"A kid with a future" says Detective Serino :lol:

by **north ridger** » 21 Jun 2012, 20:14

Your google skills are slowing down Dan. Two hours ago you didn't even know who Serino was, and it took you this long to claim a decorated lead detective is a liar.

Does Mr. Soard know how little you think of police detectives?

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 20:34

north ridger wrote:Two hours ago you didn't even know who Serino was, and it took you this long to claim a decorated lead detective is a liar.

What does that have to do with the dishonest way Serino describe Martin?

by **north ridger** » 21 Jun 2012, 20:51

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Two hours ago you didn't even know who Serino was, and it took you this long to claim a decorated lead detective is a liar.

What does that have to do with the dishonest way Serino describe Martin?

Serino wasn't dishonest. It was what was known by the police at that time.

It's nice to see how fast your are to malign a decorated lead homicide detective though. Your local law enforcement must love you.

by **observ** » 21 Jun 2012, 21:08

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Two hours ago you didn't even know who Serino was, and it took you this long to claim a decorated lead detective is a liar.

What does that have to do with the dishonest way Serino describe Martin?

Dan, are you really this stupid? Is this a put-on?

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 21:16

north ridger wrote:Serino wasn't dishonest. It was what was known by the police at that time.

He was as dishonest as you were telling me he got hit 2 dozen times. Besides, how in the world do you know what he knew and when he knew it?

You don't!

by **observ** » 21 Jun 2012, 21:48

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Serino wasn't dishonest. It was what was known by the police at that time.

He was as dishonest as you were telling me he got hit 2 dozen times. Besides, how in the world do you know what he knew and when he knew it?

You don't!

You just answered my question: Yes you are, and no this isn't.

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 22:07

If I'm stupid, that makes you a total idiot for following me around here like you do!

by **observ** » 21 Jun 2012, 22:17

Dan, it means that you're stupid. Period.

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 22:20

observ wrote:Dan, it means that you're stupid. Period.

..and that makes you a total idiot. Period.

by **north ridger** » 21 Jun 2012, 22:22

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Serino wasn't dishonest. It was what was known by the police at that time.

He was as dishonest as you were telling me he got hit 2 dozen times. Besides, how in the world do you know what he knew and when he knew it?

You don't!

You'll do well if you ever have an issue with Houston PD. Or the Harris County's Sherriff's for that matter.

by **Horse** » 21 Jun 2012, 22:43

You lied when you told me Z got hit 2 dozen times.

Then you lied again when you claimed you knew what the police knew about Martin and when they they knew it.

by **observ** » 21 Jun 2012, 23:05

Horse wrote:He was as dishonest as you were telling me he got hit 2 dozen times. Besides, how in the world do you know what he knew and when he knew it?

George Z. was recorded saying that he was hit two dozen times. Look for it. And blame HIM if you think it's a dishonest statement.

But then, when the jailhouse calls, content and partial transcripts were widely reported, you (stupidly) said

Horse wrote:Somehow OB got his hands on private phone calls between Z and his wife, which would indicate she actually did know how much was there.

So how does OB know what was said during those conversations?

Pure genius.

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 08:04

Horse wrote:You lied when you told me Z got hit 2 dozen times.

Then you lied again when you claimed you knew what the police knew about Martin and when they they knew it.

Zimmerman is on tape saying he was hit 2 dozen times. It was during the Serino interview.

As for Serino's statements about Martin...the Serino interview was three days after the incident. They had only ID'd Martin that day and could only run the most cursory of checks on him. Exactly how much do you think the police can find out about a victim in a few hours?

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:07

Did Z say he was “hit” 2 dozen times, or did he answer a question of how many punches did Martin throw? There’s a huge difference.

In a boxing match a boxer can throw hundreds of punches during a fight, but only a small percentage actually land and do any damage. Besides, it’s reasonable to believe Z felt like he Martin threw that many punches, when he actually didn’t. It’s just like when you’re waiting for the police to arrive, it feels like an eternity, but in reality it’s only 5 minutes.

Criminal defense lawyers who reviewed the video for The Associated Press and have no connection to the case said there were some parts that didn't add up.

Zimmerman claimed Martin confronted him after the neighborhood watch leader had given up searching for him and was walking back to his truck. But there doesn't appear to be a place to hide in the area where Zimmerman says Martin suddenly appeared

There’s were plenty of places to hide. Plus, it was dark and raining.
If Z is walking down the pavement, Martin could have easily hidden behind one of many of the white partitions. The scene obviously wasn’t bright as this picture shows because of the flash. A more accurate estimate of how dark it was is to look at the area beyond the flash’s limitation. About 25-30 feet down the path.

Zimmerman's injuries also don't appear to be consistent with the severity of the attack he described, Hill said.

He said he was first punched in the nose. The medical people on the scene said he had a broken nose. He said his head was pounded into the pavement several times…we see the results of that on the back of his head. The 20 punches Martin threw? How many landed?

Unless one is determined to find some inconsistency’s, there are none..

The detective also questioned how Zimmerman could claim he was yelling for help when he also said Martin was smothering him.

There was a struggle going on. Martin wasn’t able to maintain smothering Martin.
But, you can be sure, that’s a life threatening moment when some guy who you’ve never seen is trying to smother you. This wasn’t play time.

There is no inconsistency here.

Sereno pointed out that Zimmerman has offered two explanations for getting out of his car: to look at street signs to give the dispatcher directions and to follow Martin.
For reasons that are still unclear, Zimmerman kept up his pursuit even though a dispatcher told him not to.

That’s not the truth. Z said to the operator Martin was gone. He lost track of him. The operator wanted to know if Z still wanted the police to come, if the guy was gone? He said yes.
He said in the interview at that point he was looking for a street sign to tell the police where to meet him. He told the operator to have the police meet him at his car, which he started to walk back towards. He hung up the phone as he was heading back to his car to meet the police.
It was then, that Martin “appeared out of nowhere”

There is not inconsistency here either.

Attorney Blaine McChesney said he found parts of Zimmerman's re-enactment difficult to envision, such as his account of how he was able to reach for his gun with Martin on top of him.

Why is it so unbelievable? Martin went for the gun and Z pinned Martin’s hand with his arm to his body. Z got to the gun first.

"I also find it strange that Zimmerman would have attempted to use both his arms to hold Martin facedown, re-holstering his firearm, given those circumstances," McChesney said. "Once out from under Martin's alleged attack, it would have been more logical to hold Martin at gunpoint from a few feet away until police arrived."

Z said, he thought that Martin had something in his hand. He wasn’t able to see very well because of the blood in his eyes plus it was dark. That’s why he spread Martin hands and arms apart.
At that point he still thought Martin was a threat. He even told the neighbor that he didn't
need the call 911, He already did and the police were on their way. Instead he asked the neighbor to help him restrain Martin.

In Sereno's interview, he told Zimmerman three days after the shooting that Martin was a "good kid, mild-mannered kid."

Sereno told Zimmerman that Martin, an athlete with an interest in aeronautics, was "a kid with a future, a kid with folks that care." The detective said Martin only had a bag of Skittles and an iced tea on him when he died.
"Not a goon," Sereno said.

You want to talk about discrepancies?
The kid was a goon. He took a swing at a school bus driver. He was suspended for drugs.
He was found with stolen jewelry in his back pack

There is a huge inconstancy in the time line. Based on the phone calls, Martin had almost 4 full minutes to make it back to his house. He obviously decided not to go there, instead he decided to confront Z

by **observ** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:10

north ridger wrote:Zimmerman is on tape saying he was hit 2 dozen times. It was during the Serino interview.

As for Serino's statements about Martin...the Serino interview was three days after the incident. They had only ID'd Martin that day and could only run the most cursory of checks on him. Exactly how much do you think the police can find out about a victim in a few hours?

More important: To whom did Serino say this and how relevant (or even materially inaccurate) is it at all?

Dan has a particular image of Martin and wouldn't be happy unless Serino gave Zimmerman a medal and described Martin as a violent drug-addled "goon." The problem here is that Zimmerman, not Martin, was arrested twice for violent offenses, was on powerful central-nervous-system drugs and was armed with more than Skittles.

(Unsurprisingly: When things like this and other unglowing bits began to turn up, the pro-Zimmerman faction started to work overtime on portraying Martin as a 6'4" superthug.)

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:14

Wait Dan I'm confused. I thought I was a liar? Now suddenly I'm not liar?!

Whoopee for me, it's gonna be a great day!

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:14

Dan has a particular image of Martin and wouldn't be happy unless Serino gave Zimmerman a medal and described Martin as a violent drug-addled "goon.

"

Um..Dan just expects the truth. Martin was a goon, no matter how much you ignore that fact.

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:21

observ wrote:the pro-Zimmerman faction started to work overtime on portraying Martin as a 6'4" superthug.)

Give me a stinking break!
Of course there was no pro-Trayvon faction at work all along showing a 12 year old vs the real Trayvon

by **observ** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:26

Horse wrote:
Dan has a particular image of Martin and wouldn't be happy unless Serino gave Zimmerman a medal and described Martin as a violent drug-addled "goon.
"

Um..Dan just expects the truth. Martin was a goon, no matter how much you ignore that fact.

What a quick response. Why are you stalking me, Dan?

He DID state the truth. And please explain the circumstances -- and check the rest of that interview (though I'm sure that you haven't. You only do "quotes" and you have a rep for cluelessness.)

by **observ** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:30

Horse wrote:
observ wrote:the pro-Zimmerman faction started to work overtime on portraying Martin as a 6'4" superthug.)

Give me a stinking break!
Of course there was no pro-Trayvon faction at work all along showing a 12 year old vs the real Trayvon

Your usual mature response, Dan. You'd be happier communicating via crayons

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:31

So to you the truth are half truths.

WRONG.

The truth is the whole truth. The whole truth includes Martin was a thug

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:32

observ wrote:Your usual mature response, Dan. You'd be happier communicating via crayons

I know, you hate the truth.

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 09:38

OB's version of the truth

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 10:29

Horse wrote:So to you the truth are half truths.

WRONG.

The truth is the whole truth. The whole truth includes Martin was a thug

So Dan how much of Zimmerman's account do you think is true?

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:03

First of all, Zimmerman was foolish to talk to the police before talking to a lawyer.
The fact, that he didn't speak to a lawyer, tells me his story wasn't contrived to make it fit the law.

He told his story several times. The police have the responsibility to see if his story changed during any of those time. They ask him questions designed to see if he answers them the way he told the story. If his story changes in any way, there's a good chance that he's lying. But, as far as i can tell, his story always remained the same each time he told it.

He also passed a lie detector test.

There are no witnesses that we know of that can refute Z’s statements.

I get the impression Z thought the police were the good guys, just like him, if he just told the police the truth, everything would be ok. So, he told them exactly what occurred.

A detective has the responsibility to ask questions to test if you’re telling the truth.
I’ve now listened to the Serino interview. In that interview, he mentions to Z that he got an “anonymous call from a witness” this morning. They told him a different version than what you’re telling me, he told Z.

I think this was just a tactic to see if Z would admit to a different version. He doesn’t specifically say what the caller says, but he make hints to a version of Z followed Martin, after the operator told him not to, then pulling out his gun as he and Martin came together.

Of course, that witness never materialized. I don’t think they exist. I think the detective was just doing his job and used this tactic to find out if Z was telling the truth.

I find it interesting too, it was Zimmerman’s lawyers that released yesterdays tape.
I don’t think they could have “created” a better version of events, if they were coaching him prior to any interviews. But then again, there probably wouldn’t have been any interviews if Z first contacted a lawyer.

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:12

Actually Zimmerman's story has changed on the most critical part - why he felt his life as threatened. Was it his head being banged against the pavement? Ot being suffocated? Or just Martin going for the gun?

He started with the had banging on the pavement thing. Then changed it. Perhaps because his two tiny wounds are high on his head and not squarely in the back where you would expect.

Zimmerman said the whole fight was stationary but forensics shows it spread out over 30 feet.

Not all witness statements have been released to the public.

Again Dan, how much of Zimmerman's story do you think is true? Was his ear bashed or was he being suffocated? Was he being hit dozens of times yet miraculously is unbruised? Was the fight stationary or did it move?

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:20

north ridger wrote:Actually Zimmerman's story has changed on the most critical part - why he felt his life as threatened. Was it his head being banged against the pavement? Ot being suffocated? Or just Martin going for the gun?

Yes he felt his life was threatened when his head was be banged into the ground.
Yes he felt his life was threatened when Martin was suffocating him.
Yes he felt threatened when Martin went for the gun.

His story never changed.

Zimmerman said the whole fight was stationary but forensics shows it spread out over 30 feet.

What forensics would that be?

Not all witness statements have been released to the public.

What witnesses haven't been?
How do you know this?
Do you have a statement from the police that makes you aware of this?

Added:
If there are more witnesses than I will see what they say and evaluate.
But, you can't pretend they exist with facts that favor your version.

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:28

Again Dan, how much of Zimmerman's story do you think is true? Was his ear bashed or was he being suffocated?

Yes.

Was he being hit dozens of times yet miraculously is unbruised?

Show me the quote first where Zimmerman said those 2 dozen shots all hit him in the face.

Was the fight stationary or did it move?

I don't know...did Z change his story?

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:33

Sorry Dan, Zimmerman stopped talking about his head being banged on the sidewalk repeatedly. Probably when someone pointed out his two little cuts were too high up on his head. Then suddenly he focused on being suffocated instead.

The forensics on the fight is the debris field which encompasses 30 feet. Not stationary. Plus eyewitness accounts say they saw a moving fight.

Not all eyewitness accounts have been released to the press yet. Everyone seems to know this but you Dan. :lol:

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:43

north ridger wrote:Sorry Dan, Zimmerman stopped talking about his head being banged on the sidewalk repeatedly.

No he didn't. His story never changed.

Not all eyewitness accounts have been released to the press yet. Everyone seems to know this but you Dan.

No, you don't know that for sure, you're just guessing.

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:51

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Sorry Dan, Zimmerman stopped talking about his head being banged on the sidewalk repeatedly.

No he didn't. His story never changed.

Not all eyewitness accounts have been released to the press yet. Everyone seems to know this but you Dan.

No, you don't know that for sure, you're just guessing.

Yep guessing about everything in this thread Dan.

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 11:55

Don't lie, I didn't say the whole thread.

When you have nothing to support your claim that there are more witnesses, then you're guessing.

Tell me Mr. Prosecutor, what 2nd degree murder evidence is there in this case?

by **Leon.Anus** » 22 Jun 2012, 12:03

Am i to understand that because martin was suspended for a week because he had pot with him that makes him a hardened criminal and his shooting was justified?

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 12:31

Leon.Anus wrote:Am i to understand that because martin was suspended for a week because he had pot with him that makes him a hardened criminal and his shooting was justified?

Thanks for proving more evidence.

by **Leon.Anus** » 22 Jun 2012, 12:38

aaaah i get it,

pot = bad, because it's illegal. It's illegal because pot is bad. shit.... looks like this is the best i can hope for in my life.

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 12:39

Horse wrote:Don't lie, I didn't say the whole thread.

When you have nothing to support your claim that there are more witnesses, then you're guessing.

Tell me Mr. Prosecutor, what 2nd degree murder evidence is there in this case?

Oh stop with your "lie" shit Dan. Your first words out of your mouth when you were a baby were probably "You lie!".

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... hel-fugate

There are dozens of witnesses in this case and only a handful of statements have been released to the press. O'Mara was given 67 CDs worth of info and we've seen only a fraction of it.

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 12:49

north ridger wrote:Oh stop with your "lie" shit Dan. Your first words out of your mouth when you were a baby were probably "You lie!".

You lied...so i called you a liar. I never said you were making guesses throughout this thread, but, that's what you said I said.

There are dozens of witnesses in this case and only a handful of statements have been released to the press. O'Mara was given 67 CDs worth of info and we've seen only a fraction of it.

Dozens of witnesses that saw what happened? Really? Not!
So how many witnesses have not been released? You don't know the answer to that.
Therefore, you guessed.

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 12:54

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Oh stop with your "lie" shit Dan. Your first words out of your mouth when you were a baby were probably "You lie!".

You lied...so i called you a liar. I never said you were making guesses throughout this thread, but, that's what you said I said.

There are dozens of witnesses in this case and only a handful of statements have been released to the press. O'Mara was given 67 CDs worth of info and we've seen only a fraction of it.

Dozens of witnesses that saw what happened? Really? Not!
So how many witnesses have not been released? You don't know the answer to that.
Therefore, you guessed.

Still playing the fool Dan? The prosecution listed 29 civilian witnesses as part of their case against Zimmerman. This includes eyewitness depositions, 911 calls, and other witnesses. The bulk of the evidence from these witnesses has not been released to the public.

It's all listed in the discovery document the police gave O'Mara. Silly boy.

by **Leon.Anus** » 22 Jun 2012, 12:59

the sad thing is i dont think he's playing, he really believes in this shit.

by **Horse** » 22 Jun 2012, 13:00

north ridger wrote:Still playing the fool Dan? The prosecution listed 29 civilian witnesses as part of their case against Zimmerman. This includes eyewitness depositions, 911 calls, and other witnesses. The bulk of the evidence from these witnesses has not been released to the public.

It's all listed in the discovery document the police gave O'Mara. Silly boy.

29 civilian witnesses?

How man of the 29 saw what happened?

You don't know...you're guessing.

by **Leon.Anus** » 22 Jun 2012, 13:01

is this what your bible study groups are like?

by **north ridger** » 22 Jun 2012, 13:02

Horse wrote:
north ridger wrote:Still playing the fool Dan? The prosecution listed 29 civilian witnesses as part of their case against Zimmerman. This includes eyewitness depositions, 911 calls, and other witnesses. The bulk of the evidence from these witnesses has not been released to the public.

It's all listed in the discovery document the police gave O'Mara. Silly boy.

29 civilian witnesses?

How man of the 29 saw what happened?

You don't know...you're guessing.

Dan why would I bother to guess when I have a PDF of the discovery document right in front of me? Your laziness is no excuse for calling me a liar.

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